Question: Can people who have died see, watch over or contact those who are still living? What does the bible say about this and the people who claim to be able to contact the dead?
There is a growing interest in the idea of an ongoing connection between the dead and the living. In the movies, popular movies like Ghost portray this idea of a relationship with the dead. On T.V. it’s shows like Crossing Over with John Edwards, or the Discovery Channel series, A Haunting. There is a growing fascination with the paranormal. But what does the Bible have to say?
A good beginning point is Leviticus 19:31. In the midst of a long list of various laws, God issues this terse decree:
Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.
Exodus chapters 7-8 describe the wickedness of the Egyptians practicing magic, sorcery, and speaking to the dead. In Exodus 22:18, the prohibition against occultism includes the ultimate legal penalty:
Do not allow a sorceress to live.
But is the Bible consistent? There is one occasion where God allows a necromancer to contact the living with a word from God? In 1 Samuel 28, a wicked King Saul finds that he is no longer hearing from God. So he, who had earlier killed many of the mediums and spiritists contacts the witch at Endor and asks her to raise the recently deceased prophet Samuel from the dead. The witch is reticent, fearing that this is a trap by Saul. But Saul swears an oath to the LORD that she will not be harmed and she succeeds in raising the dead prophet. The witch shrieks when Samuel appears, suggesting that she may have been a charlatan and was herself surprised that an actual spirit was speaking. Samuel proceeds to express annoyance at being disturbed and reiterates his own prophetic announcements that Saul has been rejected and that the kingdom has been transferred to David, as far as God is concerned. Some argue that 1 Samuel 28 is proof that the Bible is at best conflicted with regard to the occult.
Other supporters of spiritism cite Jesus’ parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 16, which portrays a conversation between two people in the afterlife, Abraham in glory and the Rich Man in hell, as a prooftext that conversations with the dead are sanctioned.
It is important that we note that there is a very real difference between the descriptive and the normative. It is true that God allowed the witch of Endor to summon Samuel. However, this is not an indication of God’s approval of occultism. Rather, it is permitted by God as part of this process of pronouncing judgment against Saul and stripping him of his rule. Saul receives no words of comfort and no blessing. Within a very short while he will be dead on Mt. Gilboa and David will be king. The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is just that, a parable. And when the Rich Man pleads that he be permitted to contact and warn his brothers, Abraham refuses to allow this contact…they have Moses and the prophets…let them listen to them.
The bible is very clear that necromancy, the attempt to contact the dead through occultic channels is forbidden and spiritually dangerous.
However, part of this question has to do with the righteous dead in heaven. Can our dead relatives in heaven watch us? This question has been on my heart, especially since my Dad died in July of 2006. Can Dad see Erik and Deanna growing up? Will God allow him to see them graduate school? Get married? But, let me finish the question to draw a fuller picture. Will God allow my Dad to see my sins and short-comings? Will he have to sit through every one of his son’s blunders? Will he watch me die? Or does God permit us to see some things from heaven, and not others? The Bible does not answer these questions. However, I would venture one thought. Every description of Heaven seems to indicate a focus on God and his throne, not earth and its goings on. It is only natural that we, with our earthbound perspective, would assume that this is where the action is. However, I suspect that those in heaven have better things to do than watch us. And for those in the eternal kingdom of God, our homecoming to heaven is just a little bit away. We get a since of how different time is perceived from an eternal perspective from many passages of scripture. In 2 Peter 3:8-9, Peter says:
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
We see this same perspective as John the Baptist describes the nearness of the kingdom:
"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." (Matthew 3:2) Jesus spoke in the same way. From our perspective, time passes slowly, but from God’s perspective, a perspective shared by those in heaven, time passes differently.
On the basis of these thoughts, I conclude that those in heaven are not “missing us.” They are looking forward to our return, in much the same way that a parent looks forward to their child coming home from school in a couple of hours.
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Welcome Everyone,
This is The NOW Blog, the official Blogcast center for Reformation NOW. On this forum you will find news, information, events and entries concerning Reformation NOW and maybe sometimes some tidbits that we find that we think may interest you. All posts will be in reverse chronological order starting with the latest date first and working backwards. In addition to news and information, all of RN's podcasts will be listed as entries as they are made available. The great thing about this forum is that it allows you to subscribe to RN's podcast and blog entries all at the click of a mouse. Individual MP3's of weekly broadcasts are also available for single download.
We hope you enjoy the forum and feel free to provide feedback, comments or submit any questions you may have. As RN evolves with God's blessings, we hope that tools such as this forum will work to spread the true message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Lord's Grace,
Dominic Korzecki & Chris Martini
Power of The Word (formerly Reformation NOW) September 10th 2009
Download | Duration: 00:00:00
(Reformation NOW is now Power of The Word)
Have you ever wondered if the translation of The Bible you are reading is accurate to the original text? Chris and Dom profile in depth one of the more popular translations of the Holy Scriptures and compare it.
Also, can Christian Radicalism and Muslim Radicalism be compared? We look into all this and more as we explore The Power of The Word.
The Occult, Psychics and Mediums
In Leviticus 19, there are two statements about “mediums” or fortune tellers, as God is laying out the law. Leviticus 19:26 says, “…Do not practice fortune telling or witchcraft.” and Leviticus 19:31 says, “Do not rely on mediums and psychics, for you will be defiled by them. I, the Lord, am your God.”
Leviticus 20:6-7 says, “If any among the people are unfaithful by consulting and following mediums or psychics, I will turn against them and cut them off from the community. So set yourselves apart to be holy, for I, the Lord, am your God.”
Life Application Bible note on Leviticus 20:6: “Everyone is interested in what the future holds, and we often look to others for guidance. But God warned about looking to the occult for advice. Mediums and psychics were outlawed because God was not the source of their information. At best, occult practitioners are fakes whose predictions cannot be trusted. At worst, they are in contact with evil spirits and are thus extremely dangerous.” Of course, it is as bad to practice such activities as it is to consult such other people who do.
In Deuteronomy 18, when God is instructing the people about moving into their new land, there is a statement about this. Deuteronomy 18:9-10 says, “When you arrive in the land the Lord your God is giving you, be very careful not to imitate the detestable customs of the nations living there. For example, never sacrifice your son or daughter as a burnt offering. And do not let your people practice fortune telling or sorcery, or allow them to interpret omens, or engage in witchcraft, or cast spells or function as mediums or psychics, or call forth the spirits of the dead. Anyone who does these things is an object of horror and disgust to the Lord. It is because the other nations have done these things that the Lord your God will drive them out ahead of you. You must be blameless before the Lord your God. The people you are about to displace consult with sorcerers and fortune tellers, but the Lord your God forbids you to do such things.”
Isaiah 8:19-20 says, “…why are you trying to find out the future by consulting mediums and psychics? Do not listen to their whisperings and mutterings. Can the living find out the future from the dead? [the implied answer is no!] Why not ask your God? ‘Check their predictions against my testimony,’ says the Lord, ‘if their predictions are different from mine, it is because there is no light or truth in them.’”
2 Kings 21:6 says, “Manasseh even sacrificed his own son in the fire. He practiced sorcery and divination, and he consulted with mediums and psychics. He did much that was evil in the Lord’s sight, arousing his anger.”
Micah, a prophet, said this in Micah 3:5-8, “This is what the Lord says to you false prophets: ‘You are leading my people astray! You promise peace for those who give you food, but you declare war on anyone who refuses to pay you. Now the night will close around you, cutting off all your visions. Darkness will cover you, making it impossible for you to predict the future. The sun will set for you prophets, and your day will come to an end. Then you seers will cover your faces in shame, and you diviners will be disgraced. And you will admit that your messages were not from God.’ But as for me, I am filled with power and the Spirit of the Lord. I am filled with justice and might, fearlessly pointing out Israel’s sin and rebellion.”
Galatians 5:19-23 says, “When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, your lives will produce these evil results: sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry, participation in demonic activities, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other kinds of sin. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Here there is no conflict with the law.”
Acts 16:16-18 says, “One day as we were going down to the place of prayer, we met a demon-possessed slave girl. She was a fortune-teller who earned a lot of money for her masters. She followed along behind us shouting, ‘These men are servants of the Most High God, and they have come to tell you how to be saved.’ This went on day after day until Paul got so exasperated that he turned and spoke to the demon within her. ‘I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her,’ he said. And instantly it left her.”
Think of these things: God alone is eternal. God alone knows what is best for you and what your whole future holds. God alone is holy. God tells us not to consult with the occult for our own good.
Do you put your faith in God? If so, don’t worry and don’t turn to the occult. We all must move our belief from our heads to our hearts. By that, I mean it is not enough to believe in Christ in your head, for even Satan “believes” in God and Jesus. We must fully trust God, dedicate ourselves to him, and commit to him. Then we can have a personal relationship with this living God, and he will care for us and communicate to us what we need to know. In Isaiah 9:6, Isaiah uses four names for God, and one of them is “wonderful counselor,” because God will give you the right advice.
If you have concerns for yourselves, check your commitment to God, confess your sins to him, and then spend time in prayer. If you pray earnestly and listen, God will comfort you. He will ease your anxieties and tell you what you need to know. Many people believe in occult supernatural experiences but then scoff at the fact that they could possibly have a supernatural experience with God. That is ridiculous. If you believe in the evil side, why not the good? The Bible repeatedly says that God is interested in your affairs and that you should rely on him and him alone. Besides, I can personally attest to the personal and caring nature of our God.
If in using Tarot Cards or other such activities you cannot tap into a power that will enlighten you, then you are wasting your time [and money] while sinning against the Lord. If they do have such power and it is not from God [as the Bible says], then from where [or whom] do you think that power comes, and do you want such a thing in your life, knowing it has an evil source and that God forbids it? If you want a supernatural experience, do it with God, the source of all that is good and right, not with any other force in the universe.
Written by: Will Groben
Reformation NOW - September 4th, 2009
Chris and Dom ask this week, "Do People Even Know How To Really Worship God?". We also provide final answers concerning psychics and the future tellers of society. Also, a huge announcement ends the programs and begins another chapter in the RN Ministry.
Download | Duration: 00:36:07
This week on Reformation NOW ...
Where did Worship go???
This week on RN, Chris and Dom take a look at what it means to Worship God in the 2009 culture.
Wanna know your future? We also explore what scripture says concerning psychics and mediums.
Also, you won't want to miss RN's big announcement this week !!
Reformation NOW - August 27th, 2009
Download | Duration: 00:35:16
This week's Reformation NOW examines Discipleship and asks, "How can some individuals disciple if they never have been discipled themselves? Also, a roman relic gives us a glimpse of life before Christianity was a staple in society. All this and more on this week's broadcast of Reformation NOW.
RN Recommendations : The Relentless Tenderness of Jesus by Brennan Manning
Once in awhile we'll suggest something that we have come across that is purchase-worthy in the eyes of Reformation NOW. This week on the program we will be discussing discipleship and why being discipled is crucial for the growth and health of the Body of Christ. Manning points out to us in his work that we as Christians follow Christ but very few "follow" Christ as he wanted us to. It's a message overlooked by many believers.
Personally, this book opened my eyes to many things that I didn't realize simply by reading scripture or listening to a sermon. It exposed to me to the other side of Jesus, away from the functionality of being our savior and seeing him as God manifested him to be, a human being who was divine.
Overall Brennan's book gave me a deeper security in knowing how Christ can personally understand our troubles and triumphs. I found he was human in every sense which even leads me into more wonder as my mind can't fathom full humanity and full divinity all in the same person.
Obama and family still church hunting ....
Without divulging into the controversial arena of politics, it is worthy to note that Barack Obama and family have not chosen a church to attend since taking office in January. Does this matter? Well, yes in the case that every sitting U.S. President before this administration has chosen a church for himself and his family to attend in the Washington D.C. area within the first 60 days of their presidency. Yet a lack of membership is not stopping his attempt to utilize top church leaders asking them to encourage their congregations to write their senators and congress people in order to gain support for his health care reform bill. Yes, this is the same Barack Obama that is for stem cell research...
We here at Reformation NOW feel that their are enough issues to be covered in the Christian Body to do without political discussion but we can't overlook the fact that Christ's church is being used by a man that is in favor of the breeding and murdering of human embryos for speculative research. Yet is the same man that has the nerve to call up the same body of believers to ask for support of his political agenda. Join us on our weekly broadcast this Thursday as we dive further into this and many other issues happening in the Body of Christ today at www.reformnow.info .
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